Liabilities / Assets
88th percentile
Higher debt load relative to assets than 88% of similar nonprofits.
EIN 81-4697586 • 501(c)2 • Meridian, MS
Profile
Title holding company for Fourth Day Ministries non profit organization. Entire income goes to sole holder.
Precomputed percentiles relative to similar nonprofits. These scores are descriptive rather than judgmental.
Liabilities / Assets
88th percentile
Higher debt load relative to assets than 88% of similar nonprofits.
Liabilities / Revenue
95th percentile
Higher debt load relative to revenue than 95% of similar nonprofits.
Net Margin
80th percentile
Higher net margin than 80% of similar nonprofits.
Top Officer Pay
82nd percentile
Higher top officer pay than 82% of similar nonprofits.
Top officer pay equals 0.0% of source-year revenue.
Asset Growth
85th percentile
Faster asset growth than 85% of similar nonprofits.
Revenue Growth
Score unavailable
A valid growth rate could not be computed from the available filing history.
Assets
Up$135,524
Up $9,353 (+7.4%) from 2023
Liabilities
Flat$126,171
Flat from 2023
Net Assets
Up$9,353
Up $9,353 from 2023
Revenue
Up$19,363
Up $19,363 from 2023
Expenses
Up$10,010
Up $10,010 from 2023
Net Income
Up$9,353
Up $9,353 from 2023
Most recent year
2024 • Form 990Facts available. Structured filing facts are available, but richer extracted sections are limited.
Title holding company for Fourth Day Ministries non profit organization. Entire income goes to sole holder.
| Line | Beginning | End | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Assets | |||
| Pd in Cap Srpls Land Bldg Eqp Fund | $522,000 | $522,000 | → $0 |
| Other Notes and Loans Receivable, Net | $126,171 | $126,171 | → $0 |
| Cash and Non-Interest-Bearing Accounts | - | $9,353 | - |
| Rtn Earn Endowment Incm Other Fnds | $-522,000 | $-512,647 | ▲ $9,353 |
| Total Assets | $126,171 | $135,524 | ▲ $9,353 |
| Liabilities | |||
| Mortgage Notes Payable Secured by Investment Property | $126,171 | $126,171 | → $0 |
| Total Liabilities | $126,171 | $126,171 | → $0 |
| Net Assets / Fund Balance | |||
| Total Net Assets Fund Balance | $0 | $9,353 | ▲ $9,353 |
| Total Liabilities and Net Assets / Fund Balance | $126,171 | $135,524 | ▲ $9,353 |
| Name | Title |
|---|---|
| Kristi Ford | President |
| Sidney Graham | Secretary |
| Mike Lange | Treasurer |
| Line Item | Amount |
|---|---|
| Other Expenses | $10,010 |
| Grants and Similar Amounts Paid | $0 |
| Professional Fundraising Fees | $0 |
| Salaries, Compensation, and Employee Benefits | $0 |
| Total Fundraising Expense | $0 |
| Line Item | Program | Management | Fundraising | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Interest | $9,600 | - | - | $9,600 |
| Other Expenses | $400 | - | - | $400 |
| Office Expenses | $10 | - | - | $10 |
| Total Functional Expenses | $10,010 | $0 | $0 | $10,010 |
| Line Item | Amount |
|---|---|
| Professional Fundraising Fees | $0 |
“Board reviews and approves all paperwork”
“Board monitors compliance”
“Available on request”
This appendix keeps the raw XML leaves available for debugging and edge-case review. The human report above is the primary experience.
| Path | # | Value |
|---|---|---|
| IRS990/AccountantCompileOrReviewInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ActivitiesConductedPrtshpInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ActivityOrMissionDesc | 0 | Title holding company for Fourth Day Ministries non profit organization. Entire income goes to sole holder. |
| IRS990/AnnualDisclosureCoveredPrsnInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/BackupWthldComplianceInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/PersonNm | 0 | KRISTI FORD |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/PhoneNum | 0 | 8503762942 |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/USAddress/AddressLine1Txt | 0 | 770 HARBOR BLVD UNIT 1T |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/USAddress/CityNm | 0 | Destin |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/USAddress/StateAbbreviationCd | 0 | FL |
| IRS990/BooksInCareOfDetail/USAddress/ZIPCd | 0 | 32541 |
| IRS990/BusinessRlnWith35CtrlEntInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/BusinessRlnWithFamMemInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/BusinessRlnWithOrgMemInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CashNonInterestBearingGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 9353 |
| IRS990/ChangeToOrgDocumentsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CollectionsOfArtInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CompensationFromOtherSrcsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CompensationProcessCEOInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CompensationProcessOtherInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ConflictOfInterestPolicyInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/ConservationEasementsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ConsolidatedAuditFinclStmtInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CreditCounselingInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/CYBenefitsPaidToMembersAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYContributionsGrantsAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYGrantsAndSimilarPaidAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYInvestmentIncomeAmt | 0 | 9653 |
| IRS990/CYOtherExpensesAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/CYOtherRevenueAmt | 0 | 9710 |
| IRS990/CYProgramServiceRevenueAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYRevenuesLessExpensesAmt | 0 | 9353 |
| IRS990/CYSalariesCompEmpBnftPaidAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYTotalExpensesAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/CYTotalFundraisingExpenseAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYTotalProfFndrsngExpnsAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/CYTotalRevenueAmt | 0 | 19363 |
| IRS990/DAFExcessBusinessHoldingsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DecisionsSubjectToApprovaInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DeductibleArtContributionInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DeductibleNonCashContriInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DelegationOfMgmtDutiesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Desc | 0 | Working toward having property in place for the exempt organization to fulfill it role in providing community service. |
| IRS990/DescribedInSection501c3Ind | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DisregardedEntityInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DistributionToDonorInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DocumentRetentionPolicyInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/DonorAdvisedFundInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/DonorRstrOrQuasiEndowmentsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ElectionOfBoardMembersInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/EmployeeCnt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/ExpenseAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/FamilyOrBusinessRlnInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/FederalGrantAuditRequiredInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ForeignActivitiesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ForeignFinancialAccountInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ForeignOfficeInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Form1098CFiledInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Form8282PropertyDisposedOfInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Form8899Filedind | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRltdOrgRt | 0 | 0.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRltdOrgRt | 1 | 0.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRltdOrgRt | 2 | 0.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRt | 0 | 5.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRt | 1 | 5.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/AverageHoursPerWeekRt | 2 | 5.00 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OfficerInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OfficerInd | 1 | X |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OfficerInd | 2 | X |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OtherCompensationAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OtherCompensationAmt | 1 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/OtherCompensationAmt | 2 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/PersonNm | 0 | KRISTI FORD |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/PersonNm | 1 | MIKE LANGE |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/PersonNm | 2 | SIDNEY GRAHAM |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromOrgAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromOrgAmt | 1 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromOrgAmt | 2 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromRltdOrgAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromRltdOrgAmt | 1 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/ReportableCompFromRltdOrgAmt | 2 | 0 |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/TitleTxt | 0 | PRESIDENT |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/TitleTxt | 1 | TREASURER |
| IRS990/Form990PartVIISectionAGrp/TitleTxt | 2 | SECRETARY |
| IRS990/Form990ProvidedToGvrnBodyInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/FormationYr | 0 | 2017 |
| IRS990/FormerOfcrEmployeesListedInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/FSAuditedInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/FundraisingActivitiesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/GainOrLossGrp/SecuritiesAmt | 0 | 9653 |
| IRS990/GamingActivitiesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/GoverningBodyVotingMembersCnt | 0 | 3 |
| IRS990/GrantsToIndividualsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/GrantsToOrganizationsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/GrantToRelatedPersonInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/GrossAmountSalesAssetsGrp/SecuritiesAmt | 0 | 9653 |
| IRS990/GrossReceiptsAmt | 0 | 19363 |
| IRS990/GrossRentsGrp/RealAmt | 0 | 9710 |
| IRS990/GroupReturnForAffiliatesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/IncludeFIN48FootnoteInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/IndependentAuditFinclStmtInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/IndependentVotingMemberCnt | 0 | 3 |
| IRS990/IndivRcvdGreaterThan100KCnt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/IndoorTanningServicesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/InfoInScheduleOPartVIInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/InterestGrp/ProgramServicesAmt | 0 | 9600 |
| IRS990/InterestGrp/TotalAmt | 0 | 9600 |
| IRS990/InvestmentInJointVentureInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/IRPDocumentCnt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/IRPDocumentW2GCnt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/LegalDomicileStateCd | 0 | MS |
| IRS990/LoanOutstandingInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/LocalChaptersInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/MaterialDiversionOrMisuseInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/MembersOrStockholdersInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/MethodOfAccountingCashInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/MinutesOfCommitteesInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/MinutesOfGoverningBodyInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/MissionDesc | 0 | Title holding company for Fourth Day Ministries non profit organization. Entire income goes to sole holder. |
| IRS990/MoreThan5000KToIndividualsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/MoreThan5000KToOrgInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/MortgNotesPyblScrdInvstPropGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/MortgNotesPyblScrdInvstPropGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/NetAssetsOrFundBalancesEOYAmt | 0 | 9353 |
| IRS990/NetGainOrLossInvestmentsGrp/RelatedOrExemptFuncIncomeAmt | 0 | 9653 |
| IRS990/NetGainOrLossInvestmentsGrp/TotalRevenueColumnAmt | 0 | 9653 |
| IRS990/NetIncmFromFundraisingEvtGrp/TotalRevenueColumnAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/NetRentalIncomeOrLossGrp/RelatedOrExemptFuncIncomeAmt | 0 | 9710 |
| IRS990/NetRentalIncomeOrLossGrp/TotalRevenueColumnAmt | 0 | 9710 |
| IRS990/NetUnrelatedBusTxblIncmAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/NoListedPersonsCompensatedInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/NondeductibleContributionsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/OfficeExpensesGrp/ProgramServicesAmt | 0 | 10 |
| IRS990/OfficeExpensesGrp/TotalAmt | 0 | 10 |
| IRS990/OfficerMailingAddressInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/OperateHospitalInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/Organization501cInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/OrgDoesNotFollowFASB117Ind | 0 | X |
| IRS990/OtherChangesInNetAssetsAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/OtherExpensesGrp/Desc | 0 | Fourth Day Ministries |
| IRS990/OtherExpensesGrp/ProgramServicesAmt | 0 | 400 |
| IRS990/OtherExpensesGrp/TotalAmt | 0 | 400 |
| IRS990/OthNotesLoansReceivableNetGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/OthNotesLoansReceivableNetGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/PartialLiquidationInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/PayPremiumsPrsnlBnftCntrctInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/PdInCapSrplsLandBldgEqpFundGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 522000 |
| IRS990/PdInCapSrplsLandBldgEqpFundGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 522000 |
| IRS990/PoliticalCampaignActyInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/PrincipalOfficerNm | 0 | KRISTI FORD |
| IRS990/ProfessionalFundraisingInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ProhibitedTaxShelterTransInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/QuidProQuoContributionsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/RcvFndsToPayPrsnlBnftCntrctInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ReconcilationRevenueExpnssAmt | 0 | 9353 |
| IRS990/RegularMonitoringEnfrcInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990/RelatedEntityInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/RelatedOrganizationCtrlEntInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/RentalIncomeOrLossGrp/RealAmt | 0 | 9710 |
| IRS990/ReportInvestmentsOtherSecInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ReportLandBuildingEquipmentInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ReportOtherAssetsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ReportOtherLiabilitiesInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ReportProgramRelatedInvstInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/RevenueAmt | 0 | 19251 |
| IRS990/RtnEarnEndowmentIncmOthFndsGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | -522000 |
| IRS990/RtnEarnEndowmentIncmOthFndsGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | -512647 |
| IRS990/ScheduleBRequiredInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ScheduleJRequiredInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/ScheduleORequiredInd | 0 | true |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/ExplanationTxt | 0 | Board reviews and approves all paperwork |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/ExplanationTxt | 1 | Board monitors compliance |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/ExplanationTxt | 2 | Available on request |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/FormAndLineReferenceDesc | 0 | Form 990 governing body review Part VI line 11 |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/FormAndLineReferenceDesc | 1 | Conflict of interest policy compliance Part VI line 12c |
| IRS990ScheduleO/SupplementalInformationDetail/FormAndLineReferenceDesc | 2 | Governing documents etc available to public Part VI line 19 |
| IRS990/SchoolOperatingInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/SignificantChangeInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/SignificantNewProgramSrvcInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/StatesWhereCopyOfReturnIsFldCd | 0 | MS |
| IRS990/SubjectToExcsTaxNetInvstIncInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/SubjToTaxRmnrtnExPrchtPymtInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TaxableDistributionsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TaxablePartyNotificationInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TaxExemptBondsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TerminateOperationsInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TotalAssetsBOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalAssetsEOYAmt | 0 | 135524 |
| IRS990/TotalAssetsGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalAssetsGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 135524 |
| IRS990/TotalCompGreaterThan150KInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TotalEmployeeCnt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalFunctionalExpensesGrp/FundraisingAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalFunctionalExpensesGrp/ManagementAndGeneralAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalFunctionalExpensesGrp/ProgramServicesAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/TotalFunctionalExpensesGrp/TotalAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/TotalGrossUBIAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalLiabilitiesBOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalLiabilitiesEOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalLiabilitiesGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalLiabilitiesGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotalNetAssetsFundBalanceGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalNetAssetsFundBalanceGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 9353 |
| IRS990/TotalOtherCompensationAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalProgramServiceExpensesAmt | 0 | 10010 |
| IRS990/TotalReportableCompFromOrgAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalRevenueGrp/ExclusionAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotalRevenueGrp/RelatedOrExemptFuncIncomeAmt | 0 | 19363 |
| IRS990/TotalRevenueGrp/TotalRevenueColumnAmt | 0 | 19363 |
| IRS990/TotalRevenueGrp/UnrelatedBusinessRevenueAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TotLiabNetAssetsFundBalanceGrp/BOYAmt | 0 | 126171 |
| IRS990/TotLiabNetAssetsFundBalanceGrp/EOYAmt | 0 | 135524 |
| IRS990/TotReportableCompRltdOrgAmt | 0 | 0 |
| IRS990/TransactionWithControlEntInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/TypeOfOrganizationCorpInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/UnrelatedBusIncmOverLimitInd | 0 | false |
| IRS990/UponRequestInd | 0 | X |
| IRS990/USAddress/AddressLine1Txt | 0 | 770 HARBOR BLVD 1I |
| IRS990/USAddress/CityNm | 0 | Destin |
| IRS990/USAddress/StateAbbreviationCd | 0 | FL |
| IRS990/USAddress/ZIPCd | 0 | 32541 |
| IRS990/VotingMembersGoverningBodyCnt | 0 | 3 |
| IRS990/VotingMembersIndependentCnt | 0 | 3 |
| IRS990/WhistleblowerPolicyInd | 0 | true |
| ReturnHeader/BuildTS | 0 | 2025-03-06 01:10:19Z |
| ReturnHeader/BusinessOfficerGrp/DiscussWithPaidPreparerInd | 0 | false |
| ReturnHeader/BusinessOfficerGrp/PersonNm | 0 | KRISTI FORD |
| ReturnHeader/BusinessOfficerGrp/PersonTitleTxt | 0 | PRESIDENT |
| ReturnHeader/BusinessOfficerGrp/PhoneNum | 0 | 8503762942 |
| ReturnHeader/BusinessOfficerGrp/SignatureDt | 0 | 2025-05-09 |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/BusinessName/BusinessNameLine1Txt | 0 | FDM HOLDINGS INC |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/BusinessNameControlTxt | 0 | FDMH |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/EIN | 0 | 814697586 |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/InCareOfNm | 0 | % Kristi Ford |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/PhoneNum | 0 | 8503762942 |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/USAddress/AddressLine1Txt | 0 | 6145 CAUSEYVILLE RD |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/USAddress/CityNm | 0 | Meridian |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/USAddress/StateAbbreviationCd | 0 | MS |
| ReturnHeader/Filer/USAddress/ZIPCd | 0 | 39301 |
| ReturnHeader/IRSResponsiblePrtyInfoCurrInd | 0 | true |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerFirmEIN | 0 | 261444748 |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerFirmName/BusinessNameLine1Txt | 0 | STEVENS ACCOUNTING & TAX SERVICE |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerUSAddress/AddressLine1Txt | 0 | PO BOX 507 |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerUSAddress/CityNm | 0 | Marion |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerUSAddress/StateAbbreviationCd | 0 | MS |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerFirmGrp/PreparerUSAddress/ZIPCd | 0 | 39342 |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerPersonGrp/PhoneNum | 0 | 6016932580 |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerPersonGrp/PreparationDt | 0 | 2025-05-15 |
| ReturnHeader/PreparerPersonGrp/PreparerPersonNm | 0 | ROY STEVENS |
| ReturnHeader/ReturnTs | 0 | 2025-05-15T09:24:36-04:00 |
| ReturnHeader/ReturnTypeCd | 0 | 990 |
| ReturnHeader/TaxPeriodBeginDt | 0 | 2024-01-01 |
| ReturnHeader/TaxPeriodEndDt | 0 | 2024-12-31 |
| ReturnHeader/TaxYr | 0 | 2024 |
No mirrored PDF or thumbnail assets are attached yet.